Help me with a magic compendium.

[Grayell]

No larger mana pool. Versatility is plenty reward enough. Damn, you can combine your own magics, that seems pretty powerful to me.

You see, let's look at hit points. No one really has more than anyone else in life. If you get stabbed in the stomach, you're going to die or need some serious medical intervention. I don't care if you're an athlete, or a barbarian, a stab in the gut will mess you up. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense, because trauma has the same effect on everyone. If hit points means you're simply healthier and better at recovering, then they're not being treated right. Armour reduces damage and so can skill, in that you can block.

A warrior type in this game can take less damage, because he reduces it before it hits. But cut his head off and it's a done deal. Sure, he may take a punch better than the local mage due to experience, but it's still not hit points. A vital strike will still ruin his day.

Mages are like that. No more brain power than anyone else. Maybe a higher IQ, but that doesn't make their mind any less tiresome. If anything, they're likely to be higher strung and on the verge of mental collapse before anyone else.

[Kiko]

I don't think so.

We aren't talking about a mana pool here. It's about how much it takes out of a person to drive their body and mind to produce an effect. Having the skill/ability to draw on multiple elements isn't going to make you any better at staving off fatigue. On the other hand, endurance is probably a factor.


This part even I agree with. Knowing more than one weapon style does not make me any better than someone without knowledge of throwing daggers, instead of just swords. I'm still only a level 5 swordsman.

[Neko]

As for the Endurance thing... I could see it playijng a factor, but I could be wrong as well...

[Grayell]

Endurance is physical and doesn't apply to damage in battle. It is just as it says, endurance. It allows you to deal with extremes in climate and prolong physical activity. It does not prevent you bleeding out. It does not effect your ability to live. It MAY be played out as ignoring damage to remain active til you fall over dead, which is really just stubbornes. But it will not prolong the inevitable.

There should be no ignoring fatigue. You can choose to ignore it without a stat, by pushing yourself too hard. Then you pay the consequences.

[Neko]

Like Aegil in Herb Hunt... As an example of Fatigue and being pushed beyond her limit?

Or should it have been handled differently?

Hoping examples of it being done well might help people understand.

[Grayell]

I have not read that whole thread, perhaps I will today.

[Neko]

Or perhaps we could post a mock mage duel as an example?

[Grayell]

I read the thread and had but two concerns honestly. Number 1 is that manipulation of the level of holding a complex shape such as a moving, bipedal figure is going to be very exhausting. In the frenzy of battle, having it run and walk, climb and attack is not nearly as simple as just attacking outright with magic. I cannot imagine the fatigue required to maintain such a structure and regardless of the reason behind the magic, it still has to be within the system. The other issue with 'Spectre' is that he is pretty much as a sentient elemental. We have avoided elementals so far as you know Alex and spectre is played a sentient being but has to be made up of the character's magic. This concept was not approved at character submission and I have to say, it's a can of worms. I think the idea needs to be reigned in to work within the constraints of our system, purely because it implies creating sentient magical beings is ok.

The second, lesser issue; would be the throwing knife with the magic. Aegil has no skill with a throwing knife whatsoever and would have little familiarity with it. Using magic to be entirely responsible for the trajectory, speed, accuracy and force behind the item would also not be a trivial matter. Magic would have made for a slow and cumbersome projectile, especially given it being made for throwing. I do not want magic nullifying other skills. Or people will be ignoring martial prowess and using wind to make themselves kung fu masters and so on. The magic should compliment the skills required for the act, something we will be expanding on with the slight tweaks to the system. Enhancing your other talents with magic is fine, but replacing the points put into other talents by magic use is not. 5 levels of any magic should not have the finesse required to make a throwing knife as effective as someone trained with the weapon.

Sorry to pull your thread apart Aegil, but I was asked lol.

[Kiko]

Feb 14, 2013 10:45:06 GMT -5 Aegil said:

Aegil lifted the darkness at her feet like rippling cloth to curl around her in a tube like shield as she spun, just long enough to block the arrows before she dropped it. Facing with the bear on one side of her and the single thorn elf on the other side she smirked. "Now that wasn't very curtious. Seems you need to learn a lesson in manners." She turned a little in the bears direction and threw her empty hand out. "Spectre." The creature of shadow rushed, its form like a worgan but eerily thin, claws sharp and legs bent at an angle that just seemed... wrong. Otherwise its form was undetailed, wisps curling off it as it crouched low and rushed to swipe with wild ferocity at the bears exposed side.

Aegil focused her shadow magic mostly on Spectres form, her staff held before her in a defensive position against the only thorn elf who had spoken to her.

I read Herb Hunt earlier today while stuck at a friend's to see how this was playing out. I have to say, while I have no issue with Aegil using her dark magic to make a shield/shroud to block the arrows I do have one with her creating a completely humanoid form.

First off it requires the mage to have extensive knowledge of Worgen anatomy to create something that behaves as she stated. This might not seem like much until you consider the fact that ninety percent of the population couldn't tell you how their liver works in their own body let alone one of another species.

If we ignore that because it's magic and not medical knowledge and only lookslike a Worgen... and I'm not even going to go into the whole having her body as a host and the creature itself able to slip in and out at will. Still, we have the required concentration to make an object that moves and attacks. I did not see that concentration mentioned at all. It happened within seconds of the first bit of magic she attempted. And, not only that apparently she had enough presence of mind to hold on to a staff weapon in case she was attacked.

She did mention she focused her shadow/dark magic on Spectre's form and also that he/she was very thin and parts of his body were less detailed. I wish she had expanded on that and made the attack itself a little less immediate.

I think if we encourage her to do that, either by making the attack ineffective in some respects and ask her to think on how she is gathering enough energy to attempt three utterly different and complete actions in a small amount of time, then perhaps that is all we need do.

[Neko]

I accept some fault as well as the GM. Back when we had metal mages, I saw where they would use their skill in magic to wield thrown weapons and assumed this would be similar.

Was the Fatigue part handled ok tho? Especially towards the end?

The rest I will correct going forward.

[Grayell]

The fatigue was handled very well and I commend Aegil for playing that out, actually. Seeing spots and the like, most new players ignore fatigue and she's largely embraced it. Thank you for that, Aegil.

Magic is not going to be an immediate, effective melee counter. Mages are glass cannons and that does mean that reacting to a fast, physical attack might leave them wanting. Raising a magic shield vs Gray's sword draw? You're run through every time.

[Hex]

Perhaps we can have an elemental trumping system, so magic isn't just linear. This is just based off other systems, and can totally be changes around or scrapped, but I thought I might just put it out there.

Fire and Water are Opposites, Earth and Air are Opposites. Light and Dark are opposites, naturally. Blood would just be a neutral magic I guess, since we don't really have a 'spirit' magic category.


So, here's an example of what I mean.

Fire > Air > Water > Earth > Fire

Fire would naturally trump air, which naturally trumps water, which naturally trumps earth, which naturally trumps fire.

Reasoning? Fire chokes air, Air freezes water (assuming water doesn't include ice magic), Water dilutes earth, and Earth smothers fire.

Since fire and water are both opposites, and so are air and earth, it would only be logical to make it so that water and fire technically could beat each other, as water douses flames but fire evaporates water. The same goes for air, as air can erode earth while earth can block air/wind.

There are so many other systems like this, where other elements are switched around, so it really doesn't matter if any of them are switched around. This also wouldn't be a 'all earth magic beats fire' but rather 'earth has a natural advantage over fire' type of thing, so two mages with equal skill in their respective element wouldn't be at a stand still, unless they were of opposite elements haha. I only brought this up because, well, if we want elements to be defined more so it's not all just 'magic fire goes boom' type of thing, but this is just a plausible idea.

And light/dark would just be like Light casts shadows out, Darkness blocks light out, etc etc.

This may be expanded upon or trashed, but just pointing it out while I have the chance <#

[Shen]

Well ahead of you, but thank you for your input. Anyone else?

[Kiko]

Hex has an interesting idea. However, since we have always used acclaim to break any tie; as it were... I don't think we need a system where one element trumps another in battle. Yes, water doses fire. But, a smart fire mage can still figure a way out of a duel with a water mage by simply thinking outside the box. The same for any of the elements. Now maybe I am misunderstanding his trump idea and he has thoughts for it beyond mage battles.

Perhaps all we need do is add a fatigue talent. We've removed talents before due to complexity. In adding fatigue we would give the magic category a checks and balance stat as endurance is for sword and melee attackers. The more fatigue you have the longer you are able to sling magic around or in a wider area or with more complex spell casting.

We would have to figure out how to award fatigue points up to this point and I'm not quite sure how to do that fairly. Perhaps based on acclaim. For instance: every 20 points of acclaim you gain 1 fatigue point. This would be for established characters mind you and only up to 5.

[Kiko]

Oh, and from this point forward of course every mage character would have to considering putting points in fatigue.