Your input - magic.

[Grayell]

Alright, I thought this needed it's own thread.

With Gray wrapped up, I can focus on getting some more work done.

So magic was designed in this system to allow total creativity. It started out as our take on 'bending' and kind of grew from there. But with creativity comes complication and the unforeseen pit of worms.

I think for the sake of simplicity, we need to do something familiar.

I am quite convinced that a spell list is in our best interest. Devoting endless stats in countless magic specifics at the cost of dedicating to one type of magic is a bit of a pain and still, leaves too much open to interpretation.

So, 10 levels in each type of magic.

You learn 3 spells with each level.

You can do 1 spell in your highest level, each time you rest. You can do one more, for each level below that. (Level 3 = 3 level 1 spells, 2 level 2 and 1 level 3.)

The power of the spells is dependent on the level of the spell itself.

Spells will be descriptive and will have a time associated with them, translated by the GM. (Instant would be just that, 10 minutes would depend on the flow of game play.)

I would like to combine healing and light as Holy and Dark magic can grow into something more chaotic (with a few hints of necromancy....)

Thoughts?

[Alexander]

Its either that or have the skill list you posted before cross over all schools of magic then seperate skills to identify what schools of magic you know... But that still leaves things open ended...

It would look like this...

MAGIC:
- Power
- Duration.
- Range.
- Area of effect.
- Enchantment.
- Manifestation (ie, how quick it is to have the desired effect).
- Cantrips.
- Manipulation.
- Willpower. (or what we will just call MAGIC ENDURANCE).
- Resilience. (read, defense against magic).
- Earth
- Air
- Fire
- Water
- Light
- Dark
- Blood
- Healing

So it would be much like Weapon skills where there are some skills that effect you no matter what weapon/magic you are using, then skills to show how good you are at the individual weapons/magic.

Not sure how much i like that method...




That being said I like the spell list idea alot. It will take alot of work to come up with those spells as we would need multiple for each level to offer variety, but I think in the long run its probably the best choice. The progression seems good to me. Mage items could maybe add a spell slot, or do similar/same effects as spells without costing the slot. (Think wand of magic missles, etc from D&D) And we could reward mage players with loot like Spell Scrolls that would let them learn a new spell(but not a slot) so they are getting something they can use aside from weapons and armor...

"Congrats, you learned a new spell, but you still can only use your set max per day/adventure/whathave you..."

it would basically just give them more options to choose from...

[Neko]

And i was actually going to recomend combining either Healing and Light, or Blood and Healing... So on the same page there...

[Dieter]

I have mixed feelings about a spell system. Say I want to cloak myself in shadow to blend into the night. Then, use earth magic to shift a rock to draw my enemy's attention before striking from behind. Shifting a rock to make noise is too simple to be a spell I think, so how would that work?

Also, if once the spells are done, I have a different take on how I use earth or dark magic not reflected in those existing spells, would I be able to make my own?

[Neko]

Coppied from the Chatbox...

Alxraven: Maybe keep the freeform, but with more definiton to what can be done at each level.
Alxraven: Level 1: Can manipulate x quantity of elemant and it has to be present. Level 2; same as level one but not element need be present. Level 3; increase quantity and bring back the need for the element in that amount, level 4: same as 3, but no need for element, etc...
Alxraven: But that still restricts us to essentially "Elemental" magic...
Alxraven: no room for spells and such...
Alxraven: So things like necromancy would be out...
Alxraven: Another option would be a blend of the two...Heres spells outside of the Elemental aspect you can do at each level, but you can also do some freeform manipulation of said element outside of those spells...
Alxraven: So, say a Water mage, could at a level whatever either use freeform elemental to cause water to rise up and smack someone, or cast spells such as "Walk on Water" or "Breath under Water"

Alxraven: It has flaws of its own, but may at least give someone else an idea to work from and come back with something else even better...
Dieter: Indeed
Alxraven: Flaws being. The elemental aspect is still very open to interpretation...
Dieter: True, but less than if there were no guidelines as to how much one can manipulate
Alxraven: And possible issues with some spells maybe being able to be recreated using the freeform...
Alxraven: "why should i take the "cloak in Darkness spell, when I could just bend the shadows around me using freeform?" for example...
Alxraven: Course, in addition to defining quantity, we could also give more definition to range and such at the various levels. Level one being personal effect only and goes up from there...
Alxraven: Same with duration and others currently undefined aspects...
Alxraven: So a level one earth mage could coat themselves in rock armor for protection and it would last one round...

[Grayell]

Mar 26, 2014 12:11:57 GMT -5 Dieter said:

I have mixed feelings about a spell system. Say I want to cloak myself in shadow to blend into the night. Then, use earth magic to shift a rock to draw my enemy's attention before striking from behind. Shifting a rock to make noise is too simple to be a spell I think, so how would that work?

Also, if once the spells are done, I have a different take on how I use earth or dark magic not reflected in those existing spells, would I be able to make my own?

You can throw a rock. Seriously. Magic is not meant to be the answer for everything and the moment it is, it's far too overpowered. Wrapping yourself in darkness - I imagine that would make such a spell list.

No matter what we do with freeform, it is riddled with problems.

I'll say this much. I've been doing this a short while now and I can say that I have seen nothing unexpected from the freeform magic. It's all very much the norm and I don't think we'd suffer for having a spell list. Things that wouldn't make a list would likely be quite convoluted, or difficult to figure out.

An no scrolls. (Smacks Alex.)

As for cross elements - well buy points in another element. Really, a system of 'bought points in magic X and Y? Here's your spell lists.'

[Neko]

Makes sense to me. Figured spells would cover most everything expected. The usual suspects, favorites, etc...

[Grayell]

Yep. I don't want it as complex as the first Menagerie, or D&D. But a ten point system ( lots of growth Alex ) means 30 spells by the time you're done. That's a disgusting amount of power at you fingertips. We may have to nerf how many you get, or you're looking at 50 spells each day. Yeesh.

[Neko]

Oh, the POWER!!!

[Miroslaw]

I have never been a fan of a spell list, but I can see the reasons for it. Freeform leaves a lot open to player/gm interpretation. To me, this is not a problem as long as you RP modestly. The problem is, too many people do not... So, I would not be entirely against a spell list. The biggest trouble is how much trouble it would be to create a spell list for the elements... Would take some time. hehe.

Also, I think having a place for getting "custom" spells accepted would be a good idea. That way, a player could still use something they might come up with that is not included in a preset list.

Also, I dont think having 30 spells is a bad thing. Someone who has maxed out a magic skill would be considered a "master" of that element and rightfully be a true force to be reckoned with... A mage who has put all his studies into one element should have many spells at their disposal.

[Redblade]

Mar 26, 2014 16:15:44 GMT -5 Miroslaw said:

Also, I think having a place for getting "custom" spells accepted would be a good idea. That way, a player could still use something they might come up with that is not included in a preset list.

I like this idea.  Makes the player more unique in his class of element.

[Grayell]

Guys.

The single, biggest can of worms in running an rpg is the 'I wanna make this.' Seriously, I know it's great to have options, but it a huge tax on the admin and staff and constantly leads to re-balancing. A 30 spells list doesn't need anything added. If it's not in there, there is something wrong. Very wrong.

Look at it this way. Fire, water, earth, wind, holy and chaos. 3 spells per 10 levels EACH. That makes for ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY SPELLS.

You don't need custom options. What you need, it for your character to be bad ass custom, because you rp him that way.

That said, I don't want spells to be detailed down to the last letter.

As for the work in making the list? Yeesh, go read through the store. It can be done.

[Grayell]

Alright, so I thought I would play with fire magic and see what I can come up with in say.... 5 minutes. The time right now is... 5.14 pm.

LVL 1
Fire dart. A small projectile leaves the casters hand and strikes a visible target within 30 feet. Capable of minimal damage.

Firebug. A tiny firefly follows the caster and illuminates an AOE of ten feet. It lasts 1/2 an hour.

Snapmatch. At the snap of their fingers, the caster summons a flame upon their thumb. This can be used to light appropriate material. It lasts no longer than 5 seconds.

Three minutes. The GF is wanting attention.

[Grayell]

OH!

AND A SPELL LIST COMPLETELY ELIMINATES THE FATIGUE SYSTEM!!!!!

[Neko]

And some spells could be very similar from one area to another.

a Light mage bending light around them to become TEMPORARILY invisible

and

a Dark Mage cloaking himself in shadow


or the various elemental bolts, rays, cones, etc...


i like the idea of some of the spells still being a bit open

Flare/Damper

the mage can control the flames in an area of Xft about him. This can be used to increase or decrease the ammount of light they put out.
Increase doubles light radius
Decrease halves it.

Yes the wording sucks, but I was typing on the fly...